Financial independence is a position of not relying on work to make a living. Here’s why the related FIRE movement is so dangerous to a healthy money mindset.
I agree with you that extreme budgeting can result in an unhealthy money psychology.
FiRE is broad tent, and it seems most of your criticism is specific to a limited swath, "fast lean FIRE" (I added fast as a contrast to slow but "lean FIRE" is a common term).
"Slow FIRE" or "slow fat FIRE" doesn't have the same budget fixation. In fact, check out Paula Pant's concept of the "anti-budget" (allocation of savings/investing off the top and don't budget the rest). I'd argue that fat, or for some people, even normal (non-lean) FIRE expressly allows not focusing on budget more than lack of FI, both vefore and after achieving FI, since it breaks the connection between a paycheck and living expenses, allowing for a reduction in focus on money. If you listen to people who have achieved FI, many say that they hardly think about money after having achieved FI.
It makes sense that many people hardly think about money after achieving FI – that's the goal, right? I love the concept of breaking the connection between a paycheck and living expenses! Do you know of any resources that talk about it that way? Would love to read more.
Increasing the gap between income and expenses and using that gap to pay off high interest consumer debt and save and invest is a common theme in the FI community. Paula Pant talks about that a lot in her podcast "Afford Anything". I would recommend "The Mad FIentist" and "ChooseFI" podcasts. Mad FIentist is about his own personal FI journey, which is along those lines (in one episode he talked about how he became too frugal and found value in backing it off) and ChooseFI is just a lot less opinionated and more neutral about how different people may have affinity to different elements of FI. They don't really push one point of view, and just provide information which they're happy to have their audience take or leave on a case by case basis (in contrast to some very frugal, "purist" elements of the FIRE community, who may make you think they're representative of the entire movement even though they aren't).
Slow FI sounds like a much healthier approach. My problem with FIRE is twofold. First, it smacks of privilege, as you point out. Second, tomorow is not guaranteed to any of us. While I’m a big believer in saving for the future, it can’t be at the expense of enjoying the life you have today.
💖 I agree with both of those critiques! The second is what gives me pause about saving for retirement in general, especially at the expense of life today. I'm happy to discover Slow FI and find some folks in the movement I can connect to — probably isn't the specific path for me, but it's nice to be able to find some connections with others in personal finance.
Being able to save for FI is certainly a privilege. It means you earn more than what you strictly need to live. However, I've made lifestyle decisions to vastly reduce my cost of living. And I pursue FI because I'm disabled and don't know how long I'll be able to work for. I'm an LGBT woman, so it's definitely not all white, able-bodied tech bros in the movement... and we don't all earn extraordinary incomes. My household income is $75K, which is pretty close to the US median.
Thank you for sharing your perspective! I appreciate you calling out my assumption about who pursues FI and showing us how this could be important for reasons we don’t often discuss.
Rest is a book by Alex Soojung-Kim Pang where he dissects an average 4 hour work day as the most “optimal” with scientific research... financial independence should have a spirit of freedom with it. That’s what I desire to contribute and feel free at the same time.
I think we ended working toward Slow FI before there was a term for it. I also feel like so much of stuff about FI is written by young men without kids--never very pertinent to my experience so I’m just not interested.
I wonder this same question! Many FIRE influencers find that meaningful work in teaching others about finance, but there’s less visibility for other options. I imagine many start businesses. Either way, it doesn’t look like “retirement”; because people go on to continue earning money, this becomes just a way to quickly hoard wealth.
I agree with you that extreme budgeting can result in an unhealthy money psychology.
FiRE is broad tent, and it seems most of your criticism is specific to a limited swath, "fast lean FIRE" (I added fast as a contrast to slow but "lean FIRE" is a common term).
"Slow FIRE" or "slow fat FIRE" doesn't have the same budget fixation. In fact, check out Paula Pant's concept of the "anti-budget" (allocation of savings/investing off the top and don't budget the rest). I'd argue that fat, or for some people, even normal (non-lean) FIRE expressly allows not focusing on budget more than lack of FI, both vefore and after achieving FI, since it breaks the connection between a paycheck and living expenses, allowing for a reduction in focus on money. If you listen to people who have achieved FI, many say that they hardly think about money after having achieved FI.
It makes sense that many people hardly think about money after achieving FI – that's the goal, right? I love the concept of breaking the connection between a paycheck and living expenses! Do you know of any resources that talk about it that way? Would love to read more.
Increasing the gap between income and expenses and using that gap to pay off high interest consumer debt and save and invest is a common theme in the FI community. Paula Pant talks about that a lot in her podcast "Afford Anything". I would recommend "The Mad FIentist" and "ChooseFI" podcasts. Mad FIentist is about his own personal FI journey, which is along those lines (in one episode he talked about how he became too frugal and found value in backing it off) and ChooseFI is just a lot less opinionated and more neutral about how different people may have affinity to different elements of FI. They don't really push one point of view, and just provide information which they're happy to have their audience take or leave on a case by case basis (in contrast to some very frugal, "purist" elements of the FIRE community, who may make you think they're representative of the entire movement even though they aren't).
For reading more, here are a couple places to start: https://www.getrichslowly.org/fire-myths-misconceptions/
https://www.nerdwallet.com/uk/current-accounts/guide-to-the-fire-movement/#how-much-sacrifice-does-fire-involve - actually the rest of that article is likely worth reading as well.
Thank you!
Slow FI sounds like a much healthier approach. My problem with FIRE is twofold. First, it smacks of privilege, as you point out. Second, tomorow is not guaranteed to any of us. While I’m a big believer in saving for the future, it can’t be at the expense of enjoying the life you have today.
💖 I agree with both of those critiques! The second is what gives me pause about saving for retirement in general, especially at the expense of life today. I'm happy to discover Slow FI and find some folks in the movement I can connect to — probably isn't the specific path for me, but it's nice to be able to find some connections with others in personal finance.
Being able to save for FI is certainly a privilege. It means you earn more than what you strictly need to live. However, I've made lifestyle decisions to vastly reduce my cost of living. And I pursue FI because I'm disabled and don't know how long I'll be able to work for. I'm an LGBT woman, so it's definitely not all white, able-bodied tech bros in the movement... and we don't all earn extraordinary incomes. My household income is $75K, which is pretty close to the US median.
Thank you for sharing your perspective! I appreciate you calling out my assumption about who pursues FI and showing us how this could be important for reasons we don’t often discuss.
Rest is a book by Alex Soojung-Kim Pang where he dissects an average 4 hour work day as the most “optimal” with scientific research... financial independence should have a spirit of freedom with it. That’s what I desire to contribute and feel free at the same time.
I love this! My nonscientific experiments have found a four-hour day to be pretty comfortable, too 😁
I can do scientific but not peer reviewed... I am certain my peers are not approving lots of data I’ve seen 😂
I think we ended working toward Slow FI before there was a term for it. I also feel like so much of stuff about FI is written by young men without kids--never very pertinent to my experience so I’m just not interested.
100% true. The advice often assumes you have few responsibilities and ample time for things like a side hustle.
Consistent with what you've written: Retire at 35. What meaningful work are you going to engage in for the next 50 years?
I wonder this same question! Many FIRE influencers find that meaningful work in teaching others about finance, but there’s less visibility for other options. I imagine many start businesses. Either way, it doesn’t look like “retirement”; because people go on to continue earning money, this becomes just a way to quickly hoard wealth.