Compounding this is that the savings go directly into stocks or mutual funds that support the very billionaire companies that seek to oppress us and destroy the environment while power grabbing with an insatiable appetite. To me the additional insult.
Absolutely! That’s what I mainly address in the investing chapter of the book: investing is unethical. It’s absurd that we allow our plan for long-term financial stability to rest on something so questionable and risky.
Great! I hear wonderful things about your book and it is on my to- read!! I personally struggle with the paradox - my investments are in the very companies I actively seek to avoid/take down by value aligned actions. Hard to sit with!
I had the realization a few years ago that the paltry amount I managed to put away had involved doing without a lot -- not just little luxuries but actual needs my family had. And for what? The money I put away is not enough to save me if I get cancer or have to go into a nursing home. It isn't going to be enough to really help me when I'm 75. It could have helped me a LOT more when I was 30. But I was terrified and convinced I really had to put away something. So I did, as much as I could. I played right into their hands -- because Big Biz has had the use of this money for decades.
I ought to have done things like get my kids braces when they were the right age for them, take them on a couple of family vacations when they were young and pay for air conditioning when it was brutally hot and humid and we were all miserable.
I'm going to be poor in my old age regardless. Who will subscribe to Substack or purchase my books when AI is cranking out crap?
"It could have helped me a LOT more when I was 30" is an important reminder! Retirement planning advice assumes we all have enough now, and that's increasingly not the case.
This reinforces so many of my own beliefs, and I really thought I was alone in calling bullshit on the conventional wisdom around retirement!
I’ve defined this phase of my life (45, teenage kids, taking care of mom) “pre-tirement” because I need to downshift and take care of my mental and physical health so that I’ll live to retirement age. I ordered your book and will likely write a bit about this on my substack!
Thanks for getting the book 💖 I love the term "pre-tirement" — that's an important part of rethinking retirement, too — how to adjust our relationship with work and money throughout our lives, and not just make this one big shift at 67.
Please let me know if you write about it; would love to read!
That quote is my legacy and I am proud of it! 😁 Got my YDNAB book the other day and I'm excited to dig in.
Reading this and the Salon article makes me thankful that I chose a career that doesn't involve physical labor and many people continue to do into their 70s or beyond (therapist). But as I already have a chronic health condition in my 30s, I worry a lot about disability and the need for expensive medical care for me or my partner, as our ability to work declines. And I don't have the data to back this up but my experience tells me we are living in an ever more disabling world (take long Covid, for example), so just as people are burdened with working later into their lives, they are likely to be less able to do so. It's a grim picture. I think some might say that advances in medicine keep us healthy longer, but when our country's healthcare system makes that medicine accessible only to the wealthy...
Second all of these observations and concerns! My partner and I both do work we love and would love to do as long as we live, but he already lives with chronic illness, and something could change in my body anytime. I count on being able to work in old age, but that's not guaranteed, and there's no safety net if I can't.
Great piece. I was just talking to my wife about this— we can’t really afford to set money aside and I have ethical concerns about sending my money somewhere to be invested, but I’m “losing” a 12% match from my employer by not contributing. It feels like damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Unfortunately, I work for a large university, so a ton of what is actually predatory compensation policy is excused as “nothing we can do about it” because it is “policy.”
There's nowhere you can make 12% on investment, so if you have even a trickle to put away, find the most vanilla savings plan available to you so that you can make the match. When you leave that employment, you should be able to roll it over into a plan of your choice. Without any opinion as to their future as investments (in this highly unpredictable universe), a fund that invests in US Treasuries, and other governmental bonds (financing affordable housing, for example) are more "productive" than standard Wall Street.
Thanks for unpacking this and talking about the history of retirement in the USA and our current reality. My first job has a counselor/therapist was one of those companies that didn’t give any contributions until I had been there for several months to a year. In fact, I was never even communicated how to apply for it even when I did qualify so there was no way for me to set up contributions. It is a very shady company in many ways.
Also, what has always rubbed me the wrong way was that how today it seems our only option is a 401(k) and in those cases all the money goes into stocks, which only helps the shady companies that are oppressing us. Just out of ethical principle alone it makes me not want to put any money in the stock market.
Same re: ethical concerns. That's what I devoted most of the investing chapter of YDNAB to, because it puts us in such a terrible position. It's almost like the shady, oppressive companies want us to *have* to feed money into the stock market..?
Really enjoyed this and agree with the shift in thinking about retirement. But realistically, if we are lucky, we will get old and need to stop working to earn an income. Maybe not at 60, or 65, but planning to work and earn forever isn’t realistic so how are we meant to support ourselves in old age before we pass? Agree with the policy changes proposed, and we should agitate and advocate for them, but the base case is not that our country is going to wake up one day and decide to do right by its citizenry. So what actually should ppl who are young enough to still work and save do to take care of themselves when the time comes that they cannot?
I just started reading your book and I'm pleased to see an anti-capitalist financial perspective. As every social change organizer knows, naming the source of the oppression is important to raising consciousness/redirecting strategies. I'm glad you chose "budget culture." It reminds me of how we animal liberationists embraced the concept of "carnism" to explain the embedded belief system of cruelty and oppression regarding non-human animals.
I'm moved to ask how I might be engaged with you to expand the critique. You might not agree, but I believe your suggestions for anti-capitalist activism would be enhanced by a broader Marxist perspective and stronger recommendations beyond "Vote!" (I know that's not all you said). Sure it's better to work on electoral politics outside the silly "Vote for the prez but only two parties" paradigm. But you'd agree, I suspect, that much more is needed for those of us who want to replace this oppressive system with soemthing better (and, sadly, that's not the direction we're headed as your piece on fascism demonstrates).
I would like to ask you a question based on my current situation/predicament.
I'm a soon-to-be octogenarian who, through a fifty-year career in higher education, is comfortable financially in my retirement. But I'm decidely uncomfortable with what I have and how it compares to those who do not have, especially fellow retirees. I spent my career being "fiscally prudent," and now I have investments and wish I did not.
How I got where I am is not an uncommon story, with which I am sure you are familiar. But, as the comrade said What Is To Be Done? Your notes or correctives or steers toward others to talk with or read much appreciated!
Ansd thank you for this great effort you have undertaken!
Have you heard of Resource Generation? https://resourcegeneration.org/ It's all about wealth redistribution and using class privilege to support social justice — targeting young people, specifically, but that could be a good place to start for resources.
I also know some financial advisors who work with high-net-worth folks concerned with wealth distribution. Happy to point you in their direction if you're interested!
Thanks for writing this! As someone who has definitely voiced the critiques you’re addressing, I really appreciate you taking the time to lay it all out.
I'm a new reader after the Amazon article. I didn't have a critique of the Amazon article in that we've all got to make our own choices. But I am struggling here because I feel like it was argued that we should all be free to continue to enrich Jeff Bezos, but the system is so unfair I can't save for retirement (or just save in general which is the minimum that I personally advocate). I'm in total agreement that nobody's looking out for you, the system is awful, wages are awful and yet we all still kind of have this responsibility to do our best to look out for ourselves (and ideally our community). The choice of I prefer to give my money to Jeff Bezos because it's convenient and also I choose to not save anything for myself because the system sucks and it's hard just really rubs me the wrong way.
My interpretation of this and a lot of Dana's content is "the conventional wisdom is ___. A lot of people feel stressed because that doesn't represent their reality. Here's an alternate narrative." In this case, I think she's just pointing out that there might be things people do with their money that are more important and suited to their circumstances than saving for retirement, when the reality is they won't be able to retire anyway. It's not the right choice for everyone, but it's an underrepresented narrative in the financial advice world.
I found this article deeply disturbing. All I see is the fueling of a fatalism that doesn't actually have a basis in reality.
How you treat your money is the same as how you treat your body. You have to exercise willpower to deny yourself short-term gratification for long-term positive outcomes. People may not be able to live the lives they dream of, but they doesn't get them off the hook living solidly and building for their future. You don't eat McDonald's everyday because who can expect you to eat healthy foods with all those "evil corporations" around.
Unless I have completely misread your post, this is actively destructive message you are promoting.
Oops, secretary, there was never enough money to pay bills, rent, etc. we relied on food stamps to supplement our food budget.
Now, as a 63 year old, my husband and I are still, it seems, when compared to all of our friends, financially unstable. Saving for retirement now is almost laughable. We don’t own a home and had to sell the last home we owned at a loss during the 2008 recession. There’s shame, fear, worry about our future that I can’t shake. I just hope our children have a healthy relationship with money.
Thank you for this concise summary. I was just explaining this to my 18 year old son who’s obsessed with economics and finances. He keeps asking me why I only have $200k in my 401k at 54. Dude, I am doing better than most people my age. I came from below the poverty line and was first Gen low income for college and law in the late 80s early 90s. Nobody taught poor people about stocks because we couldn’t afford to invest back then. He has grown up in the suburbs in a 2 parent 2 income household and can’t relate. His dad and I both grew up poor with teen moms. We were 36 when our son was born. He’s can’t even comprehend our Gen X latchkey childhoods.
A fantastic article of unpacking the truth.
Compounding this is that the savings go directly into stocks or mutual funds that support the very billionaire companies that seek to oppress us and destroy the environment while power grabbing with an insatiable appetite. To me the additional insult.
Absolutely! That’s what I mainly address in the investing chapter of the book: investing is unethical. It’s absurd that we allow our plan for long-term financial stability to rest on something so questionable and risky.
Great! I hear wonderful things about your book and it is on my to- read!! I personally struggle with the paradox - my investments are in the very companies I actively seek to avoid/take down by value aligned actions. Hard to sit with!
I had the realization a few years ago that the paltry amount I managed to put away had involved doing without a lot -- not just little luxuries but actual needs my family had. And for what? The money I put away is not enough to save me if I get cancer or have to go into a nursing home. It isn't going to be enough to really help me when I'm 75. It could have helped me a LOT more when I was 30. But I was terrified and convinced I really had to put away something. So I did, as much as I could. I played right into their hands -- because Big Biz has had the use of this money for decades.
I ought to have done things like get my kids braces when they were the right age for them, take them on a couple of family vacations when they were young and pay for air conditioning when it was brutally hot and humid and we were all miserable.
I'm going to be poor in my old age regardless. Who will subscribe to Substack or purchase my books when AI is cranking out crap?
"It could have helped me a LOT more when I was 30" is an important reminder! Retirement planning advice assumes we all have enough now, and that's increasingly not the case.
Thing is, you are literally the first person to back me up on this.
This reinforces so many of my own beliefs, and I really thought I was alone in calling bullshit on the conventional wisdom around retirement!
I’ve defined this phase of my life (45, teenage kids, taking care of mom) “pre-tirement” because I need to downshift and take care of my mental and physical health so that I’ll live to retirement age. I ordered your book and will likely write a bit about this on my substack!
You're not alone!
Thanks for getting the book 💖 I love the term "pre-tirement" — that's an important part of rethinking retirement, too — how to adjust our relationship with work and money throughout our lives, and not just make this one big shift at 67.
Please let me know if you write about it; would love to read!
That quote is my legacy and I am proud of it! 😁 Got my YDNAB book the other day and I'm excited to dig in.
Reading this and the Salon article makes me thankful that I chose a career that doesn't involve physical labor and many people continue to do into their 70s or beyond (therapist). But as I already have a chronic health condition in my 30s, I worry a lot about disability and the need for expensive medical care for me or my partner, as our ability to work declines. And I don't have the data to back this up but my experience tells me we are living in an ever more disabling world (take long Covid, for example), so just as people are burdened with working later into their lives, they are likely to be less able to do so. It's a grim picture. I think some might say that advances in medicine keep us healthy longer, but when our country's healthcare system makes that medicine accessible only to the wealthy...
Second all of these observations and concerns! My partner and I both do work we love and would love to do as long as we live, but he already lives with chronic illness, and something could change in my body anytime. I count on being able to work in old age, but that's not guaranteed, and there's no safety net if I can't.
Great piece. I was just talking to my wife about this— we can’t really afford to set money aside and I have ethical concerns about sending my money somewhere to be invested, but I’m “losing” a 12% match from my employer by not contributing. It feels like damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Man, 12%?! I wonder if there's any possibility of asking them for a raise in lieu of that investment? This is such a frustrating position to be in.
Unfortunately, I work for a large university, so a ton of what is actually predatory compensation policy is excused as “nothing we can do about it” because it is “policy.”
There's nowhere you can make 12% on investment, so if you have even a trickle to put away, find the most vanilla savings plan available to you so that you can make the match. When you leave that employment, you should be able to roll it over into a plan of your choice. Without any opinion as to their future as investments (in this highly unpredictable universe), a fund that invests in US Treasuries, and other governmental bonds (financing affordable housing, for example) are more "productive" than standard Wall Street.
Thanks for unpacking this and talking about the history of retirement in the USA and our current reality. My first job has a counselor/therapist was one of those companies that didn’t give any contributions until I had been there for several months to a year. In fact, I was never even communicated how to apply for it even when I did qualify so there was no way for me to set up contributions. It is a very shady company in many ways.
Also, what has always rubbed me the wrong way was that how today it seems our only option is a 401(k) and in those cases all the money goes into stocks, which only helps the shady companies that are oppressing us. Just out of ethical principle alone it makes me not want to put any money in the stock market.
Same re: ethical concerns. That's what I devoted most of the investing chapter of YDNAB to, because it puts us in such a terrible position. It's almost like the shady, oppressive companies want us to *have* to feed money into the stock market..?
Really enjoyed this and agree with the shift in thinking about retirement. But realistically, if we are lucky, we will get old and need to stop working to earn an income. Maybe not at 60, or 65, but planning to work and earn forever isn’t realistic so how are we meant to support ourselves in old age before we pass? Agree with the policy changes proposed, and we should agitate and advocate for them, but the base case is not that our country is going to wake up one day and decide to do right by its citizenry. So what actually should ppl who are young enough to still work and save do to take care of themselves when the time comes that they cannot?
I just started reading your book and I'm pleased to see an anti-capitalist financial perspective. As every social change organizer knows, naming the source of the oppression is important to raising consciousness/redirecting strategies. I'm glad you chose "budget culture." It reminds me of how we animal liberationists embraced the concept of "carnism" to explain the embedded belief system of cruelty and oppression regarding non-human animals.
I'm moved to ask how I might be engaged with you to expand the critique. You might not agree, but I believe your suggestions for anti-capitalist activism would be enhanced by a broader Marxist perspective and stronger recommendations beyond "Vote!" (I know that's not all you said). Sure it's better to work on electoral politics outside the silly "Vote for the prez but only two parties" paradigm. But you'd agree, I suspect, that much more is needed for those of us who want to replace this oppressive system with soemthing better (and, sadly, that's not the direction we're headed as your piece on fascism demonstrates).
I would like to ask you a question based on my current situation/predicament.
I'm a soon-to-be octogenarian who, through a fifty-year career in higher education, is comfortable financially in my retirement. But I'm decidely uncomfortable with what I have and how it compares to those who do not have, especially fellow retirees. I spent my career being "fiscally prudent," and now I have investments and wish I did not.
How I got where I am is not an uncommon story, with which I am sure you are familiar. But, as the comrade said What Is To Be Done? Your notes or correctives or steers toward others to talk with or read much appreciated!
Ansd thank you for this great effort you have undertaken!
Thank you so much for reading!
Have you heard of Resource Generation? https://resourcegeneration.org/ It's all about wealth redistribution and using class privilege to support social justice — targeting young people, specifically, but that could be a good place to start for resources.
I also know some financial advisors who work with high-net-worth folks concerned with wealth distribution. Happy to point you in their direction if you're interested!
Thanks for writing this! As someone who has definitely voiced the critiques you’re addressing, I really appreciate you taking the time to lay it all out.
I'm a new reader after the Amazon article. I didn't have a critique of the Amazon article in that we've all got to make our own choices. But I am struggling here because I feel like it was argued that we should all be free to continue to enrich Jeff Bezos, but the system is so unfair I can't save for retirement (or just save in general which is the minimum that I personally advocate). I'm in total agreement that nobody's looking out for you, the system is awful, wages are awful and yet we all still kind of have this responsibility to do our best to look out for ourselves (and ideally our community). The choice of I prefer to give my money to Jeff Bezos because it's convenient and also I choose to not save anything for myself because the system sucks and it's hard just really rubs me the wrong way.
My interpretation of this and a lot of Dana's content is "the conventional wisdom is ___. A lot of people feel stressed because that doesn't represent their reality. Here's an alternate narrative." In this case, I think she's just pointing out that there might be things people do with their money that are more important and suited to their circumstances than saving for retirement, when the reality is they won't be able to retire anyway. It's not the right choice for everyone, but it's an underrepresented narrative in the financial advice world.
I can't argue with it being underrepresented for sure.
I found this article deeply disturbing. All I see is the fueling of a fatalism that doesn't actually have a basis in reality.
How you treat your money is the same as how you treat your body. You have to exercise willpower to deny yourself short-term gratification for long-term positive outcomes. People may not be able to live the lives they dream of, but they doesn't get them off the hook living solidly and building for their future. You don't eat McDonald's everyday because who can expect you to eat healthy foods with all those "evil corporations" around.
Unless I have completely misread your post, this is actively destructive message you are promoting.
Oops, secretary, there was never enough money to pay bills, rent, etc. we relied on food stamps to supplement our food budget.
Now, as a 63 year old, my husband and I are still, it seems, when compared to all of our friends, financially unstable. Saving for retirement now is almost laughable. We don’t own a home and had to sell the last home we owned at a loss during the 2008 recession. There’s shame, fear, worry about our future that I can’t shake. I just hope our children have a healthy relationship with money.
Money and not enough of it has always been a source of worry for me. Growing up in the 60’s and 70’s with a single mom working as a secre
Thank you for this concise summary. I was just explaining this to my 18 year old son who’s obsessed with economics and finances. He keeps asking me why I only have $200k in my 401k at 54. Dude, I am doing better than most people my age. I came from below the poverty line and was first Gen low income for college and law in the late 80s early 90s. Nobody taught poor people about stocks because we couldn’t afford to invest back then. He has grown up in the suburbs in a 2 parent 2 income household and can’t relate. His dad and I both grew up poor with teen moms. We were 36 when our son was born. He’s can’t even comprehend our Gen X latchkey childhoods.
I’m 53, and I’ve got almost $1.1 million in my 401k. Is that still good?