‘The data told my own story back to me’
A Q&A with Corinne Low about her new book ‘Having It All,’ about how women can create a better, happier life beyond the myth of having it all
Women know from experience we’re not getting a fair shake in life or work — but it’s nice to have data to back up our lived experience, too.
has a Ph.D. in economics and researches and teaches the economics of gender and discrimination at The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. She advises companies on their practices, and she’s just released her first book, Having It All, to illuminate the complex decisions women face and offer an evidence-based framework for creating a better, happier life (without trying to, in fact, “have it all”).In this Q&A, I got to chat with Corinne about her personal relationship with money and the all-too-familiar mid-life crisis that laid bare the myth of “having it all” and inspired the book.
Win a free copy of Having It All!
Please add your comments and questions for Corinne at the end of this post! I’ve got two copies of Having It All to give away to readers, and I’ll choose the winners next week at random from the comments. Add your comment by 11:59 p.m. on Tuesday, Oct. 7 to enter, and I’ll contact the winners via email by Friday, Oct. 10. (One entry per person — i.e. more comments does NOT equal more chances to win, but I do love to see you all talking!)
You write:
All our lives, [women have] been told we can do everything men can do, that we should hold ourselves to their same standard of achievement. But not only are we being graded on different tests, we are given a fraction of the time to study for it.
Can you talk about your personal “wake-up call” and what it taught you about the myth of “having it all”?
I say in my book that at the same time as I gave birth to my son, I gave birth to a mid-life crisis. I was dead in the middle of the time in women’s lives that I now call “the squeeze” — the period when women are simultaneously experiencing the most rapid career growth and becoming parents, with all the responsibilities both of those things bring. I was commuting, on the publish-or-perish tenure track, breastfeeding then pumping, reading all the baby books — and I was so tired. All the time.
All my life I had believed if I just tried hard enough and wanted it enough, I could be equal to men, both at work and at home. And yet, here I was falling behind in my career, taking on the majority of the work at home even though I was the breadwinner, and feeling like I was failing at everything all at once.
But the research I was doing showed me it wasn’t just me; it was structural forces that had left women’s time more squeezed than ever. The data told my own story back to me, alongside the stories of countless women striving in vain to achieve this myth of “having it all.” And so once I knew how and why things had gotten so bad for women, it gave me permission to change how I approached this period. Not by working or trying harder, but by working differently. I wanted to share those strategies, backed by evidence and data, with all the other women navigating “the squeeze” and other life challenges unique to women.
I should approach my own needs with the same care and love and grace as I do my kids.
What’s the most joyful thing you’ve done with money in the past six(ish) months?
I love spending money on experiences. This summer, we rented a van and drove to two national parks, with my 8 year old and a then three month old. It is actually not cost effective at all — you pay for the rental and then also have to pay for a campground to have a place to sleep. But it was magical. It created memories that at least the 8 year old is going to have his whole life.
And then also, since I’ve been prepping for my book tour, I bought a pair of shoes that I really really loved, which are the most expensive shoes I’ve ever owned! But, like, I love them. I feel so good wearing them. They feel like me, which is something I struggle with with my fashion! So it does feel joyful to put them on and celebrate being at a point in my life where every purchase doesn’t feel like an existential decision.
What messages did you get about money growing up? Which have you held onto and which have you let go?
I definitely got the message of scarcity. I grew up with a single mom who was really scared about the responsibility and the need to support us and manage everything herself. I remember one time my siblings and I left our coats behind at an activity, and she made us pay her our quarters for the gas money to go pick them up. I think she was trying to teach us to be careful, but my kid brain got the message like, wow, we can’t afford gas money, things are really scary.
We really were poor, but we weren’t as poor as I thought. My mom would literally sometimes cry when she got the electric bill — which was her own fear and inexperience and stress. And, unfortunately, I held on to that fear about money for a long time. Every little purchase or financial decision felt so high stakes, and I would spend so long ruminating on them. At the same time, I’d make bigger decisions — that were actually more financially impactful — more carelessly. It’s a common behavioral economics mistake: spend 30 minutes tracking down a code for free shipping or avoiding taking the taxi, but then avoid contributing to our 401(k) when we have matching funds, or leave money uninvested!
I have tried very hard to let go of my fear surrounding money, and to take a more rational approach. But, knowing that I struggle with decision paralysis when it comes to money means I sometimes approach things differently. For example, I use a financial advisor, who keeps my money invested. It is 100% a bad deal to pay someone to manage your money when you should just invest it in diversified assets. But, for me, it lets me offload the stress onto someone else, and ensures my money is invested instead of sitting in a checking account because I can’t decide what to do.
How do various facets of your identity impact your work and finances?
I definitely think being a kid who grew up on free lunch, on financial aid, those things impacted me tremendously. And I also recognize the privileges I did have, like having a grandfather who set aside a small college fund for me (I worked three jobs instead of spending it, and so it became my nest egg and safety net all through grad school and later the financial turmoil of divorce).
I guess because I came from a background where I had to work to support myself but now am at a point in my life where things are easier financially, it helps me to hopefully include the experience of all different kinds of women in my work. I never want to be just writing for the women who have corporate jobs and whose family income is in the high six figures. I know there are lots of challenges in their lives, too, but I feel like that experience has been overly central in most business or economics books for women. So I hope my background helps me to start a broader conversation.
What’s one financial decision that frequently causes you stress? How do you work through it?
Oh my god, everything, and I’m trying to get better about it. But, like, why is my cell phone bill so high? Do I actually need it or should I just stick to one of those discount carriers? Should I buy a replacement for the set of earplugs I love but lost one of, even though I might find it? It’s only $25, but that’s kinda expensive for earplugs and it feels wasteful to get more? Should we invest in a charging station for the used hybrid car we just bought, or just keep paying to charge it and that taking up our time?
What’s funny is that the things I don’t stress about at all are the things my kids need — yes to the new backpack, yes to extras of the baby fan in case one dies, yes to the trip or the summer camp or the extracurricular activity. So, I’m trying to take my own advice and remember that I am a member of our household. I should approach my own needs with the same care and love and grace as I do my kids.
I want women to think of their jobs as a tool to turn their time into money, instead of as our sole purpose in life.
Besides yours, what book about work or money do you most recommend and why? Who is it best for?
I think to understand what’s happening in women’s careers, we have to understand what’s happening at home and try to fix it. So I often recommend Fair Play as a method for reallocating household labor. I also love and talk about The No Club to help women get over their guilt in saying no to non-promotable work, which not only exists in the office but also haunts us at home. (Trust me, your kids do not need homemade baby food.)
But I also think a lot of the more traditional business books for women are really bad, because they focus on your career as the sole benchmark of success, as the purpose of your life. As an economist, I must insist that happiness (what economists call utility) is the purpose of your life, and your career is just a vehicle for achieving it. I want women to think of their jobs as a tool to turn their time into money, instead of as our sole purpose in life. I also have pushback on the advice I frequently see for women to act more like men at work (it’s not evidence based!).
Instead of talking about the weather, what do you wish strangers would ask you about when you meet on the street?
My earrings! Ha, I really do not have any idea what my style is — I’m working on it — but I love a good asymmetrical earring situation. (Dana: Same!)
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Your turn!
What questions or comments do you have for Corinne? Have you experienced “the squeeze” or strived to “have it all”? Have you had a reckoning about women’s positions at home and work? What are you excited to learn in Corinne’s book? Add your comments below for a chance to win a free copy! (This conversation is for people of all genders; we’re all part of creating a more equitable world!)
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I'm here if you have other questions we didn't get to!