Thank you so much for diving deeper into this. I’ll admit it’s still a lot for me to wrap my brain around, but ultimately, I think that my advice to clients is similar - *why* do you want to buy the thing/clothing? If it’s because it brings you joy, you need clothes that fit, it’s your creative outlet, great. I suggest pausing if you’re buying bc it’s not actually your choice (ie being influenced), or as you say it’s filling an underlying issue, although of course, sometimes we cope by buying just as we do with food and that’s ok. The caveat I feel the need to add with money is: as long as you can
Oops didn’t mean to post yet, the caveat I always want to add is “as long as it’s within your means” which is that part I need to revisit. Something about spending money you don’t have feels much worse than allowing yourself to eat whatever you want and that may just be the story I’ve learned.
This is such an important point, and it's the part that makes a budget-free approach feel so uncomfortable. Ultimately, I see it as the same as eating whatever you want. In both cases, we're told a story about the practical reasons we need to apply some kind of restriction, but those break down if you start to question the underlying culture. In diet culture, we only allow people in certain bodies to eat whatever they want, and we judge and restrict others. Budget culture works the same way; we judge and restrict the ways some people use money but let others indulge because it's "within their means."
I'm inspired by the "social vs. medical model of disability" in both cases. You could argue someone needs to restrict what they eat in order to be thinner so they can more easily find comfortable clothes. But the problem is really society not making clothes for their body. In the same way, you could argue someone needs to restrict the indulgences they buy in order to have more money so they can more easily save for retirement. But the problem is really a society that doesn't provide a social safety net for retirement.
Oh that’s an interesting point. I’m currently learning about the social vs medical model within disability & ND so that way of looking at it resonates.
You’ve written before about the parallels between budget culture and diet culture. I imagine in the early days of removing a budget, one might initially overspend in the “no rules,” new found freedom, just like someone transitioning to intuitive eating, but with time the novelty wears off and the spending comes down to a reasonable level.
That said I’m not sure I’m practicing what you preach fiscally. I don’t have a budget, but I gut check non-necessary purchases and go by “feel” and use whether overall spending is up or down as part of my decision making.
That's exactly what I expect when transitioning from budgeting, yes. It's part of a restrict-and-splurge cycle that happens while trying to keep a budget, and that can level out once you stop trying to restrict.
It sounds like a lot of what you're doing is practicing conscious spending! Gut-checking purchases is the core of it. I'd just investigate a couple of things:
- Be careful about categorizing something as a "non-necessary" purchase. Listen to your gut to decide to buy or not to buy anything, but seeing some things as "non-necessities" is a symptom of budget culture's "wants vs. needs" framing, whose function is mainly to add guilt and judgment to your purchases.
- I'd like to know more about how you use overall spending to decide whether or not to make a purchase. Do you consciously or subconsciously set spending limits on yourself? Or is this a way of staying in touch with how your spending fits into your overall financial circumstances (i.e. how it impacts your goals and everyday expenses)?
Such good points here. A non-necessity might not fit a hard need, but also bring joy, and I agree with you that each of us should get to decide what counts as a need versus a want.
Re: spending, I have a rough idea of what I want to spend annually and divide this into monthly spending. That said, I know I spend more in certain months than others, unexpected expenses come up, and life just happens. I just try to roll with it.
Found you via a link from Virginia Sole-Smith's excellent Burnt Toast newsletter.
Dacy had a post in which she discussed making an "enough list" that I found really helpful (https://dacygillespie.substack.com/p/discussion-thread-on-decluttering/comments). I may have "enough" winter turtlenecks, as an example, but do I have enough variety in colors to feel happy when I consider my choices in the morning? Defining my own "enough" will be an exercise in mindfulness--one I haven't been able to do because I'm temporarily out of my house while it's being remodeled, but I look forward to doing this as part of settling back in. For now I use the question "Do I have enough of [whatever this is]?" as a pause to reflect.
I'm a huge fan of my neighborhood's Buy Nothing group. It builds community, we give and receive in a spirit of generosity, and I can be as impulsive as I like in saying I want a new hat when the hat is freely given. I also find it easy to give things away because they'll take on a new life with someone else. It's very anti-capitalist in spirit and is another way of reducing consumption without reducing the enjoyment of getting something new-to-you.
I love the enough list! Thank you for sharing. This is a fantastic exercise to consider what enough means to you and, like you’re saying with the buy nothing group, think about ways to get it that fit with your needs and values.
Really love that you’ve pulled apart consumption from spending here, Dana—it’s a thought-provoking reframe that, frankly, I hadn’t thought nearly enough about!
I think the practice of spending consciously is a practice. Which means it takes time and mistakes and practice. I've also feel that just in general we as humans don't do well when there are no boundaries. A blank piece of paper is daunting and when the past paper had all the neat rows of a budget I think we crave some structure. And leaning into the structure of actually listening to what you want and need is a weak muscle for a while. But I also think that the best structure isn't restrictive, it's right-sized and flexible enough to be both supportive and dynamic.
It’s true this is a weak muscle at first! I wish listening to our gut was a strength we intentionally developed earlier in life. Instead, we train kids out of that natural instinct, and we end up at some point in adulthood realizing we have no skills to know what we truly want.
Very thought provoking post. I have never had a budget and never gone on a diet. I was fortunate to be raised by parents who instilled good values around both of these areas. We were not deprived but there were certain restrictions. Both parents were alive (very young) during the depression, and my father served in WW2. My point being they were very conscientious about spending money. We were taught at a very early age to set something aside in savings and had chores we were responsible for to earn an allowance. We were encouraged to babysit to earn money and took on part-time jobs when we were old enough. With regards to food, we eat healthy meals, and dessert and sugary beverages were for special occasions. These things became habits that I've continued well into adulthood. Agree with you. If there is overconsumption perhaps there is a deep need/motivation going on.
Thank you so much for diving deeper into this. I’ll admit it’s still a lot for me to wrap my brain around, but ultimately, I think that my advice to clients is similar - *why* do you want to buy the thing/clothing? If it’s because it brings you joy, you need clothes that fit, it’s your creative outlet, great. I suggest pausing if you’re buying bc it’s not actually your choice (ie being influenced), or as you say it’s filling an underlying issue, although of course, sometimes we cope by buying just as we do with food and that’s ok. The caveat I feel the need to add with money is: as long as you can
Oops didn’t mean to post yet, the caveat I always want to add is “as long as it’s within your means” which is that part I need to revisit. Something about spending money you don’t have feels much worse than allowing yourself to eat whatever you want and that may just be the story I’ve learned.
This is such an important point, and it's the part that makes a budget-free approach feel so uncomfortable. Ultimately, I see it as the same as eating whatever you want. In both cases, we're told a story about the practical reasons we need to apply some kind of restriction, but those break down if you start to question the underlying culture. In diet culture, we only allow people in certain bodies to eat whatever they want, and we judge and restrict others. Budget culture works the same way; we judge and restrict the ways some people use money but let others indulge because it's "within their means."
I'm inspired by the "social vs. medical model of disability" in both cases. You could argue someone needs to restrict what they eat in order to be thinner so they can more easily find comfortable clothes. But the problem is really society not making clothes for their body. In the same way, you could argue someone needs to restrict the indulgences they buy in order to have more money so they can more easily save for retirement. But the problem is really a society that doesn't provide a social safety net for retirement.
Oh that’s an interesting point. I’m currently learning about the social vs medical model within disability & ND so that way of looking at it resonates.
Ok! I’m starting to see it!
Thanks so much for prompting this conversation! It’s really got me thinking carefully about how to talk about this topic.
You’ve written before about the parallels between budget culture and diet culture. I imagine in the early days of removing a budget, one might initially overspend in the “no rules,” new found freedom, just like someone transitioning to intuitive eating, but with time the novelty wears off and the spending comes down to a reasonable level.
That said I’m not sure I’m practicing what you preach fiscally. I don’t have a budget, but I gut check non-necessary purchases and go by “feel” and use whether overall spending is up or down as part of my decision making.
That's exactly what I expect when transitioning from budgeting, yes. It's part of a restrict-and-splurge cycle that happens while trying to keep a budget, and that can level out once you stop trying to restrict.
It sounds like a lot of what you're doing is practicing conscious spending! Gut-checking purchases is the core of it. I'd just investigate a couple of things:
- Be careful about categorizing something as a "non-necessary" purchase. Listen to your gut to decide to buy or not to buy anything, but seeing some things as "non-necessities" is a symptom of budget culture's "wants vs. needs" framing, whose function is mainly to add guilt and judgment to your purchases.
- I'd like to know more about how you use overall spending to decide whether or not to make a purchase. Do you consciously or subconsciously set spending limits on yourself? Or is this a way of staying in touch with how your spending fits into your overall financial circumstances (i.e. how it impacts your goals and everyday expenses)?
Such good points here. A non-necessity might not fit a hard need, but also bring joy, and I agree with you that each of us should get to decide what counts as a need versus a want.
Re: spending, I have a rough idea of what I want to spend annually and divide this into monthly spending. That said, I know I spend more in certain months than others, unexpected expenses come up, and life just happens. I just try to roll with it.
Hear hear! Perfect post. Our relationship with money is so fraught with everything other than using it as a neutral tool to forge the lives we want.
Thank you! So true!
Found you via a link from Virginia Sole-Smith's excellent Burnt Toast newsletter.
Dacy had a post in which she discussed making an "enough list" that I found really helpful (https://dacygillespie.substack.com/p/discussion-thread-on-decluttering/comments). I may have "enough" winter turtlenecks, as an example, but do I have enough variety in colors to feel happy when I consider my choices in the morning? Defining my own "enough" will be an exercise in mindfulness--one I haven't been able to do because I'm temporarily out of my house while it's being remodeled, but I look forward to doing this as part of settling back in. For now I use the question "Do I have enough of [whatever this is]?" as a pause to reflect.
I'm a huge fan of my neighborhood's Buy Nothing group. It builds community, we give and receive in a spirit of generosity, and I can be as impulsive as I like in saying I want a new hat when the hat is freely given. I also find it easy to give things away because they'll take on a new life with someone else. It's very anti-capitalist in spirit and is another way of reducing consumption without reducing the enjoyment of getting something new-to-you.
I love the enough list! Thank you for sharing. This is a fantastic exercise to consider what enough means to you and, like you’re saying with the buy nothing group, think about ways to get it that fit with your needs and values.
Really love that you’ve pulled apart consumption from spending here, Dana—it’s a thought-provoking reframe that, frankly, I hadn’t thought nearly enough about!
I think the practice of spending consciously is a practice. Which means it takes time and mistakes and practice. I've also feel that just in general we as humans don't do well when there are no boundaries. A blank piece of paper is daunting and when the past paper had all the neat rows of a budget I think we crave some structure. And leaning into the structure of actually listening to what you want and need is a weak muscle for a while. But I also think that the best structure isn't restrictive, it's right-sized and flexible enough to be both supportive and dynamic.
It’s true this is a weak muscle at first! I wish listening to our gut was a strength we intentionally developed earlier in life. Instead, we train kids out of that natural instinct, and we end up at some point in adulthood realizing we have no skills to know what we truly want.
I feel this very deeply with respect to money, consumption and eating.
Very thought provoking post. I have never had a budget and never gone on a diet. I was fortunate to be raised by parents who instilled good values around both of these areas. We were not deprived but there were certain restrictions. Both parents were alive (very young) during the depression, and my father served in WW2. My point being they were very conscientious about spending money. We were taught at a very early age to set something aside in savings and had chores we were responsible for to earn an allowance. We were encouraged to babysit to earn money and took on part-time jobs when we were old enough. With regards to food, we eat healthy meals, and dessert and sugary beverages were for special occasions. These things became habits that I've continued well into adulthood. Agree with you. If there is overconsumption perhaps there is a deep need/motivation going on.