Thank you for sharing this! Literally, was in the same Ramsey cult for years. Lived in TN, listened to him on the radio DAILY, bought the books, went to the program. I hated myself more than I hated the debt because I hated myself for being in debt. I made my husband miserable and my kids, too. The debt culture is just like the diet culture. We have to spend money and we have to eat food. Either extreme of not spending or not eating is unsustainable and unhealthy. On the journey to finding balance is a daily recovery process from the deprogramming of Ramseyism.
I’ve lived that way for about 90 percent of my life, but from necessity. There was never going to be a better, decently paying job, and debt could easily destroy me. It’s important to understand what you truly can and can’t afford. For me, having a paid-off house is an integral part of surviving my old(er) age without, hopefully, having to move in with one of my kids.
I just had a job offer rescinded yesterday and already quit my current job. Thank you for reminding me that the debt we’re going into because of it doesn’t make me a failure
I really appreciate this post and even though I do not know who Ramsay is (I will google him after commenting), I feel like this language has permeated our cultural subconscious. I don't know a single person who thinks debt is good. Look at the student loan crisis. The language behind that alone is that we're all unworthy and bums who took advantage of a system and have to pay it back at all costs, even if it kills us. And even when the people claiming this are literally stealing/benefiting from a broken system.
I filed Bankruptcy a few years ago and it was because a credit card that I had consolidated several credit cards that I got when I was in college (predatory credit card offers should be a crime!), sold my debt to a collection agency connected to a law firm that goes after people with outstanding debts. They waited until a month before the statues of limitation were up, (I hadn't paid for several years because of freelance work I was doing), to sue me for the full amount of the debt. Once I did some digging and learned that this is an industry that is allowed to go after us, I got a bankruptcy lawyer and filed. I remember the agonizing shame I felt. The amount of tears I cried because I felt like a failure. I kept telling myself a narrative about my grandparents, who were immigrants, who worked as factory workers and still managed to buy a house, and never took public assistance, and how I was shaming their legacy. I went through the whole cycle of shame and embarrassment until I spoke about it freely with some people I was studying with and they allowed me to release it.
I survived the bankruptcy and while I'm still in a space of not loving debt, or wanting debt, I do have some debt and I've found that being accountable for my debt and paying things off brings me pleasure instead of shame. I think more than anything, Ive worked really hard at finding a balance, which is necessary in every space that we're told we need to control ourselves and be more like this way than that way. So much of our programming is about control and punishment and I refuse to feel that way anymore. We're given the adage that the world is our oyster and we can have everything we want, but only if we don't live over our means, live in large bodies, go against mainstream religious beliefs, and live lives that look different from what we're told to.
I'm glad that Gemma broke free and I'm glad that so many of us are waking up to understanding what we need as whole individuals, instead of what is pushed at us in every way possible.
Omg I forgot about Ramsey til this post! I bought into his financial sermons - thinking that living in a spartan manner would make me feel like a warrior. I never questioned his word, which is shocking as I’m an atheist and yet I was fully indoctrinated. Great post!
Really appreciate this essay. I've done a lot of work to divest from budget culture (thanks in large part to Dana's work here), but it's still of course the dominant culture and alllll that means.
I took a loan to buy my new car in 2022 (my old, as in OLD, one completely died), with a 6 year loan. I've been paying extra on it and will have it paid off by the end of this year. It's not exactly that I've made any significant sacrifices in order to make those additional payments or pay it off in half the time ... but I do wonder, well, what the rush is?
I tell myself it's saving on interest and that once it's paid off, then all of that money gets to go to more fun things, but I'm not entirely convinced it's not just toxic debt culture convincing me to get the damn thing paid off.
I pursued a "career" that I thought was my purpose. I spent a lot of money on courses and traveling to attend events. It didn't work out, and I felt like a failure, but this piece helps me see how I did what I value most: experiencing life. I'm still paying things off, and I'm still experiencing life. I refuse to believe I need to work 6 jobs to pay off the debt or to feel better about myself.
I have house-sized debt from my education, mostly from a masters degree in a specialized field I worked in for 11 years and then left. (The debt should’ve been forgiven last year through public service loan forgiveness, but that’s a whole other story). I felt I had to stay in that career long after I wanted a change because I had invested so much- that was supposed to be my forever job. The debt continues to cast a shadow over my work choices. I was never able to figure out the answer to the question “do you like your work?” because it was so entangled with the debt. These days I am working in another field, the debt is still there and is tangled in a mess of political games, and I actively try to ignore it to try to move on with my life.
Thank you for sharing this! Literally, was in the same Ramsey cult for years. Lived in TN, listened to him on the radio DAILY, bought the books, went to the program. I hated myself more than I hated the debt because I hated myself for being in debt. I made my husband miserable and my kids, too. The debt culture is just like the diet culture. We have to spend money and we have to eat food. Either extreme of not spending or not eating is unsustainable and unhealthy. On the journey to finding balance is a daily recovery process from the deprogramming of Ramseyism.
I’ve lived that way for about 90 percent of my life, but from necessity. There was never going to be a better, decently paying job, and debt could easily destroy me. It’s important to understand what you truly can and can’t afford. For me, having a paid-off house is an integral part of surviving my old(er) age without, hopefully, having to move in with one of my kids.
But I hate Ramsay. He’s a charlatan!
The ice cream cone bit makes me so sad, and so mad that this shit is shaming and guilting people into that kind of distorted decision making.
I'm glad you got out.
Signed, Dana who will have a mortgage till 80
I just had a job offer rescinded yesterday and already quit my current job. Thank you for reminding me that the debt we’re going into because of it doesn’t make me a failure
The system sucks; you don't.
Thank you 🤗
I really appreciate this post and even though I do not know who Ramsay is (I will google him after commenting), I feel like this language has permeated our cultural subconscious. I don't know a single person who thinks debt is good. Look at the student loan crisis. The language behind that alone is that we're all unworthy and bums who took advantage of a system and have to pay it back at all costs, even if it kills us. And even when the people claiming this are literally stealing/benefiting from a broken system.
I filed Bankruptcy a few years ago and it was because a credit card that I had consolidated several credit cards that I got when I was in college (predatory credit card offers should be a crime!), sold my debt to a collection agency connected to a law firm that goes after people with outstanding debts. They waited until a month before the statues of limitation were up, (I hadn't paid for several years because of freelance work I was doing), to sue me for the full amount of the debt. Once I did some digging and learned that this is an industry that is allowed to go after us, I got a bankruptcy lawyer and filed. I remember the agonizing shame I felt. The amount of tears I cried because I felt like a failure. I kept telling myself a narrative about my grandparents, who were immigrants, who worked as factory workers and still managed to buy a house, and never took public assistance, and how I was shaming their legacy. I went through the whole cycle of shame and embarrassment until I spoke about it freely with some people I was studying with and they allowed me to release it.
I survived the bankruptcy and while I'm still in a space of not loving debt, or wanting debt, I do have some debt and I've found that being accountable for my debt and paying things off brings me pleasure instead of shame. I think more than anything, Ive worked really hard at finding a balance, which is necessary in every space that we're told we need to control ourselves and be more like this way than that way. So much of our programming is about control and punishment and I refuse to feel that way anymore. We're given the adage that the world is our oyster and we can have everything we want, but only if we don't live over our means, live in large bodies, go against mainstream religious beliefs, and live lives that look different from what we're told to.
I'm glad that Gemma broke free and I'm glad that so many of us are waking up to understanding what we need as whole individuals, instead of what is pushed at us in every way possible.
Brilliant. Not a fan of Dave Ramsay at all. Especially when he shamed a couple in PA for using expensive childcare. Gross.
Thanks for this.
Omg I forgot about Ramsey til this post! I bought into his financial sermons - thinking that living in a spartan manner would make me feel like a warrior. I never questioned his word, which is shocking as I’m an atheist and yet I was fully indoctrinated. Great post!
Really appreciate this essay. I've done a lot of work to divest from budget culture (thanks in large part to Dana's work here), but it's still of course the dominant culture and alllll that means.
I took a loan to buy my new car in 2022 (my old, as in OLD, one completely died), with a 6 year loan. I've been paying extra on it and will have it paid off by the end of this year. It's not exactly that I've made any significant sacrifices in order to make those additional payments or pay it off in half the time ... but I do wonder, well, what the rush is?
I tell myself it's saving on interest and that once it's paid off, then all of that money gets to go to more fun things, but I'm not entirely convinced it's not just toxic debt culture convincing me to get the damn thing paid off.
I pursued a "career" that I thought was my purpose. I spent a lot of money on courses and traveling to attend events. It didn't work out, and I felt like a failure, but this piece helps me see how I did what I value most: experiencing life. I'm still paying things off, and I'm still experiencing life. I refuse to believe I need to work 6 jobs to pay off the debt or to feel better about myself.
I have house-sized debt from my education, mostly from a masters degree in a specialized field I worked in for 11 years and then left. (The debt should’ve been forgiven last year through public service loan forgiveness, but that’s a whole other story). I felt I had to stay in that career long after I wanted a change because I had invested so much- that was supposed to be my forever job. The debt continues to cast a shadow over my work choices. I was never able to figure out the answer to the question “do you like your work?” because it was so entangled with the debt. These days I am working in another field, the debt is still there and is tangled in a mess of political games, and I actively try to ignore it to try to move on with my life.